Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: If you go into a 12 step meeting, any city, and you count 75 people and you ask how many of them are musicians, you're going to get two. And everybody else is going to be from every walk of life that you can imagine. The same as Scott Weiland's mother crying. There are mothers crying who have lost their sons, who are construction workers, mechanics, literally anything you can think of. And it's happening every day. And the only difference between a musician that's famous and. And that other kid is that we don't talk about him on the radio.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Welcome to Outside Issues with Audrey and Patrick.
Seems like you've been doing a little bit better, you know? Cause you had some bipolar, like tough stuff. I think like a week or two.
[00:00:55] Speaker C: Ago they have been. I went on, I changed up some medication and that seemed to really help. I was on this one.
It's called an snri. SSRI are like the typical antidepressants like Zoloft, Prozac, what have you. And fun fact, those actually, if you take them in your bipolar, that can cause a manic episode.
[00:01:19] Speaker B: Oh, wow.
[00:01:19] Speaker C: In hindsight, I've seen that. I've had a manic episode when I've been on those.
But I'm taking an snri, which is. I don't know the specific science behind it, but it's Wellbutrin.
[00:01:33] Speaker B: I used to take that a long time ago.
[00:01:36] Speaker C: Yeah. And so I'm at the highest possible dose now. And since I had so much fatigue, it's really helped. And I got a new anti anxiety medication that I take, like daily.
And that's just. That's really helped because my anxiety really contributes to my fatigue a lot.
[00:01:54] Speaker B: If you had to take a roller coaster 10 times a day, you'd be kind of like spent. It's almost like you're. There's a computer and there's a background task running the whole time, and it just like taxes your processor. So that like, gee, why is my computer. Why is my computer acting so slow?
[00:02:09] Speaker C: Right. Yeah, it's. It's brutal. It's brutal.
But I just get through it. I take it as a learning experience and I try to take it as a learning experience for those around me. Um, because I think bipolar is such a shameful thing that people hide and they try to, you know, hide it from others and say, oh, I just wasn't feeling good, or like, make up, like kind of an excuse, which obviously I do all the time because of the stigma. But with people that I'm able and comfortable to Be honest with. I'm like, yeah, this is what I'm dealing with. This is like the reality of this disorder, these kind of disorders and depression and anxiety, they all culminate sometimes in substance abuse.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: Sunday, 31st August, is International Overdose Awareness Day. And you brought this to my attention.
What is your experience, your lived experience with overdoses and overdose deaths?
[00:03:11] Speaker C: Oh, boy. Well, going to rehab and outpatient rehab, nonetheless, there's.
There's multiple.
Multiple overdoses usually. I mean, fentanyl was just coming out, I feel like when it got sober, when I got sober, and it was just kind of like one of those things where you'd hear or. Or at a meeting you'd hear, oh, so and so passed away.
And I remember somebody in outpatient rehab saying, we have to step over the bodies.
And that really disturbed me because, like, we do, you know, we have to.
And as much as we want to, like, help and like, take care and focus all of our attention on somebody who's passed and we can.
Our recovery is still the most important out of everybody's, which is a way.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: Of saying that, like, if you're drowning, you know, you can't help other people unless you yourself are stable enough to reach out.
[00:04:25] Speaker C: Also, this wasn't quite technically an overdose death, but it was when I was in outpatient rehab. I met. I was in there with Chester Bennington from Lincoln park.
And, you know, he was a pillar of recovery. He was always there to, like, do little service acts and like, set up the coffee and put the chairs up, and he was just an amazing human.
And then when he died by suicide, I believe that he had been drinking during that time.
Everybody in our whole rehab just was in absolute shock and absolute grief.
And so, yes, we have to keep living through the tragedy, and we need to make space for ourselves, to figure it out and feel it ourselves.
[00:05:23] Speaker B: When you mentioned fentanyl, like the kind of. In the informal narrative of, you know, opioid. Opioid addiction for as long as we've been alive is.
There was like the.
The big pharma boom, you know, and oxy, right? And there's, you know, just this increasing amount of Americans, you know, addicted to opiates. And so fentanyl is a synthetic opiate, and it's very cheap to manufacture and cheaper to buy. And it's also highly lethal. It's the loaded gun you put in the hand of somebody, you know, who's prone to, you know, self harm. You have a loved one, right, or like an ex boyfriend that you lost, right? As a result of an overdose.
[00:06:08] Speaker C: So I actually told this story with my therapist the other day. So that's pretty cool.
So my friend, or my ex boyfriend's name was Adam.
I met him at a PTSD inpatient treatment ward in Torrance.
And he was kind of just this weird dude. Like, I don't know how to explain it. He was. He was in the Navy, and that's where he had gotten the trauma from the Navy and some sexual abuse from the Navy. And So it was 2012, and as you can imagine, like, there wasn't much, like, help for men in the military to get help for sexual assault by an officer, sexually assaulting them, let alone.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Men or women.
[00:07:00] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly.
So he was there for that. I was there for some sexual assaults that I experienced.
And, you know, we were in this outpatient program together where before we had actually been inpatient, but we hadn't really interacted. But an outpatient.
He was just this, like, I can't explain. It's just this funny guy. He would, you know, South Park. I don't. I don't watch South Park. But, like, that guy that goes like, okay, okay.
[00:07:35] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. One of the teachers. I mean, yeah, I need to. I should be better about my south park lore, but I know who you're talking about.
[00:07:41] Speaker C: Yeah, he would say that just all the time, like, out of nowhere. And he was also, like, a very talented DJ making progressive house music. And so he would make. Make music, make CDs, burn CDs, and give it to everybody in the. In the treatment program.
And listening to him and listening to his music did something to me. It, like, transported me into some sort of blissful reality. It's. It's hard. It's hard to expl. Like, I'll keep saying it. It's so hard to explain who this person was and how this person made me feel.
And so the way that we got connected was.
It was drug related. But still, just to preface, a lot of folks in the recovery community, when I tell this story, will say, oh, that doesn't count because there was drugs involved. And I think that's bullshit.
Yes, there were drugs involved with our relationship that you can't.
You can't drug up a soulmate connection.
[00:08:53] Speaker B: You were told that the romance didn't count or that, you know, it wasn't genuine.
[00:08:57] Speaker C: Yeah, that nothing was genuine. It was just, oh, it's just a using buddy. Just want to. Just. Just a using buddy.
And, you know that's a fucked up thing to say, right?
[00:09:07] Speaker B: It's as if we cease to be human beings once we're under the influence, which clearly, that's not true. You know, you're. You're lo. You're. You're loaded. You're loaded, but you're still a person. And people love.
[00:09:20] Speaker C: One afternoon, my mother came in to do a therapy session with me, an individual therapy session with me, with my assigned therapist in the outpatient program.
And, you know, therapy with my mother is therapy with my mother.
So I came out with quite a big frown on my face.
And Adam looks at me, and he goes, you look sad.
And I'm like, I am sad.
And he's like, do you like to party?
And I was like, what does that mean? And he opens his car. He had cargo pants on. So he opens, like, the packet of his cargo pants, and there I see a gigantic bottle of Vicodin.
[00:10:05] Speaker B: Jackpot. I mean, that would be, you know, Christmas for me back in those days.
[00:10:11] Speaker C: It was Christmas. I was like, holy.
This is. This is.
This is a miracle. Miracle on 34th Street. Seriously, this man is Santa Claus. And I don't know. The. The. My memory is kind of blurry, but I do know that we took a couple and we did some. We snorted some in the bathroom at the hospital.
We didn't get caught that time, but we did another time, and it kind of just went on like that. We would go to lunch. We'd sit together at lunch.
We would talk about our families. We would talk about our trauma.
We would talk about how we thought each other was attractive. And I didn't know that he found me attractive.
I was like, do you think I'm attractive? He's like, don't you see me looking at you all the time? And I was like, okay, I guess so. And it was actually funny because it was during the time of the election in 2012.
So it was Obama versus Romney.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: Wow, that's. That's a long time ago. Wow.
[00:11:18] Speaker C: It's a long time ago. Yeah. Very long time ago. And I. I don't know if you remember, but 711 had cups, like Obama cups and Romney cups for coffee.
And so I would come in with my Obama cup, and he would come.
[00:11:33] Speaker B: In with his Romney cup was a Romney coffee, decaf.
[00:11:36] Speaker C: We lamented over that. We.
We didn't. We didn't have any. He wasn't.
He wasn't, like, a right winger.
I don't. I don't know how to explain it. He wasn't. He said he was a Republican, but of course, this was in 2012. Romney. Romney. Republicans Nothing like today. And so I think.
I think he's up there now and looking down at his former GOP and just probably shaking his head.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: Yeah, you know they were a little more laid back in those days, right?
[00:12:14] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:12:15] Speaker B: It's a weird way to characterize them, but it's true.
[00:12:18] Speaker C: Yeah, we didn't have as much to worry about.
And then we ended up watching the debate together.
One of the first. I don't know which one, but I distinctly remember that this, this day, this, the specific day that we spent the entire day together. It was October 11, 2012. And so I always keep 10, 11, 12 in my head. I have it tattooed on me, actually, because it was the best day and the best night of my life, spending it with him.
Yes, we did some drugs. Yes, we did a little bit of heroin.
But we got my car washed in this little funky. I don't know if you've been to the El Segundo car wash with all the like weird little statues.
[00:13:06] Speaker B: No, but I'll have to go just in honor of those three days for you.
[00:13:11] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, so we, we did that. We were making out in, in the car wash. It was, it was great.
Yeah, we. Then we went to the beach and we just spent hours on the beach talking about who we were and like who we want to be. And his sense of humor was just so random. And the first joke he told me was pretty dirty.
His last name was Pop. So P O, P, P.
I think it's Norwegian or something.
I don't know.
[00:13:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Sounds. Sounds like, you know. Yeah, some, some Nordic candy.
[00:13:46] Speaker C: Fun fact. Actually my college boyfriend, his. His last name was Pap. P. A, P, P. You've got a type.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: What can I say?
[00:13:54] Speaker C: I guess so. I guess so. So his first joke to me was, hey, want a blow Pop?
I'm just like, oh my God. I don't know about that right now, sir, but.
[00:14:08] Speaker B: Maybe range. Check. But check, check back later. Let's see how we're doing.
[00:14:12] Speaker C: Yeah, check, check. Let's. Let's check back later.
And from the beach, we went to the Marriott and we spent this whole night together that was romantic and talking about what we wanted to do in the future. And it wasn't like one of those one night stand things like I've been saying. It's.
It was this awesome deep connection that I've never felt with anybody else.
And he. We both felt it at the same time.
It's like we couldn't let each other go when the day was over and we kind of just Went back to our normal. Our normal thing. But we knew that we had this.
This soulmate connection. And I've never used. I never used the word soulmate, really, but he was my soulmate for sure, I think. So if anything.
I don't know if you believe in soulmates is if that's a question.
[00:15:15] Speaker B: Oh, I. Well, I've had a lot of heartbreak, and I have a lot of fear about attaching that much significance to any one person.
I think I do maybe believe in it, but.
Yeah, I'm just.
I've got. I've got the vault pretty well maintained, you know, and, you know, we'll see. I. I mean, the idea of love, though, I mean, absolutely.
[00:15:37] Speaker C: You know, in this sense, it was like I had no choice. Like, this. The universe just was like, here you go. Here's a soulmate for you.
And I couldn't stop it. Like, every. Everything I interacted with this person was just soulmate connection.
Just every little look, every little word.
It's. It's just. It was beautiful.
Then he moved to Milwaukee, which is where he's from, because he had.
He. He was still struggling with opiate use.
I was still struggling with it, too, but not. Not quite as bad as him. And so he went to. Since he was in the Navy, he went to a VA rehabilitation program.
And I remember him.
This was before FaceTime existed. So we would take videos of each other and, like, send it to each other. So he would take videos of like, oh, here's my rehab room. And, like. Like, here's my chip. Like, aren't you proud of me? And then, like, one time I was actually at a bar. I'm like, look, I'm drunk. Like, that probably wasn't helpful, but we would do that every single day, Just send videos back and forth, back and forth. And there was some, like, a plan for me to move to Milwaukee at some point because I had. I didn't have anything going on. I was.
I was just trying to survive still.
And then his mom died, and I kind of didn't hear from him for a long time until I was with my.
I ended up being with my ex boyfriend who was abusive, who I've probably told you about.
[00:17:29] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, that. Just horrible situation.
[00:17:32] Speaker C: Yeah. He would not let me. And Adam called me one time, suicidal, when I was with this other man, and this other guy would not let me go outside to have a private conversation with Adam. And so I had to pretend like, oh, I don't know what you're talking about. Why don't you just like, do it yourself or something. Something just. And he was so confused, and that just broke my heart. And he said, let me come and get you. Like, let me come and fly to you so we can. And we can go back to Wisconsin so we can spend Valentine's Day together or something.
And I would want nothing, absolutely nothing more than that. But I was stuck in this danger zone, and I knew that if he had done that, somebody would have been killed.
That's.
That's the severity of my abuser's anger and control.
And so I.
When I think about Adam, and I grieve, that's the moment that I really do grieve, is that I could have gotten on that plane.
I know I had to survive.
But part of me, of course, is like, maybe I just. Maybe I could have snuck away, and then maybe things would be different.
I don't know. I could have. He could have been alive still.
But continuing.
I continued, obviously, I continued being under the control and microscope of this abusive man and eventually got to the point where physical abuse started happening pretty badly.
And so any. I wasn't allowed to have social media, obviously, because I was under control.
So one day I hid inside of the bathroom. I downloaded Facebook, and I tried to find Adam's profile, because I was like, this is it. Like, I cannot. I can't stay in here. I'm going to be killed. And I looked at his Facebook, and it said, remembering Adam Pop. I was like, what does that mean? And because I. Oh, my God.
Yeah. And I.
Yeah. And I hadn't. I didn't know what that meant because I hadn't been on Facebook. And I looked and I saw his obituary. He had died three weeks before I checked that, of an overdose.
So that is.
And I just. I remember, of course, I couldn't openly grieve in front of my abuser. I internally grieved.
And I just remember going into, like, a restaurant or something and being so confused, like, how can the world exist without Adam in it?
And it was just the most heartbreaking moment of my life. And I continue to miss him. I continue to honor him. You know, I'm in a relationship now, obviously, but I still think that he's a soulmate of mine. He just got me. I got him. And I do believe in, you know, the afterlife, stuff like that. And I know that he's.
He's egging me on for my recovery and for my mental health.
[00:20:53] Speaker B: He was trying to get treatment. He was trying to find recovery.
From the moment you met him, you guys were like, Involved in different kinds of therapy and just trying to find a way to live. Right?
[00:21:07] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. And in fact, when he died, he was a pre med student because he went to college on a GI bill, and so he decided to do pre med because he's just, he was a genius and he was doing well. He was sober. I, I looked through his, through his social media. He was sober. And what I know it happened was he got some fentanyl overdosed because he went back to his.
He relapsed.
So.
Yeah, but he was always improving himself. Always improving himself. And even if it was like he was having a hard time, it wouldn't last that long. He would still get back up and try again.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: I wish that I could just give recovery to people that are on the edge like that and save them from, you know, like a momentary lapse that could take them all the way out.
And the thing that's agonizing about this whole dynamic is that you can't give it to somebody.
There's a lot of luck involved.
And we can talk about, like, you know, harm reduction. Naloxone or Narcan are the same thing.
I had a meeting they had, I mean, at meetings here in California, I'm sure in Washington as well, they'll just hand out the spray or the inhalers at, at meetings so that you have them on hand in case somebody happens to be overdosing and, you know, you can revive them and get the medical attention and stuff.
These things save people's lives.
[00:22:48] Speaker C: Yeah, we have tons of them in all of our office locations.
We actually, in my last office location, we. We were working next to a, like a lab and they would give out Narcan because there would sometimes be folks looking for needles. And so if they happen to find a needle, then they'd also have Narcan.
So that was, that was nice to, Nice to see if you could just.
[00:23:19] Speaker B: Stay alive for long enough, you know, that recovery becomes more and more possible and it's always available, you know, Like, I, I don't know, I've just. Lately I've been thinking, like, the best that we can do is try and keep people that.
People that may be relapsing frequently or people that may be ambivalent about getting sober to try and like, stay as close to them as you can, you know, and that's not always easy, you know, especially if, like, you know, you've got your own recovery to look after or, you know, there's only so many hours in the day. But, like, you know, I I don't know if I told you yet. So on Sunday I went to a movie with a newcomer. I think he had like 0 or 1 days or something like that. And he's. His drug of choice is meth.
And he was like a really scary guy. Like, I got in the car and he didn't do anything to me or whatever, but he just had a real jittery kind of like, you know, he just seemed like somebody who had been doing a lot of meth lately and, you know, just kind of fried.
But like, we've been texting a little bit back and forth and I need to, I invited him to round up this weekend. There's the AA roundup that they're doing.
[00:24:32] Speaker C: In torrents this weekend. Oh, that's right, because it's Labor Day.
[00:24:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna be volunteering at that. And I invited him to come along, but like, you never know. I mean, like, I, I have, I have friends that have had multiple people die on them, including sponsees. And they, you know, they admittedly, they get a little jaded. Like, I, I, I'm a little bit haunted actually, by like the way that they are when I ask them about it or like when they tell me that somebody died and there's like, I can tell that they're a little desensitized to it.
But what occur.
[00:25:09] Speaker C: Yeah, I got desensitized too. I have an old sponsy who overdosed as well, way after I had been, and I think she overdosed when I moved to Washington.
But still, it's, I was, yeah, I was jaded. I was like, oh, there, there's another one.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: And yeah, it's because it's a survival mechanism. Right. Just the, the desensitization. Because if you're, if you're sensitized to it and it keeps happening, you know, you go out of your mind.
[00:25:41] Speaker C: Right, Absolutely.
It's a, it's a hard game to play to, to recover and then to watch others recover and be together.
It's a hard, it's a hard thing.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: I just know more about the power of socialization to, you know, nudge people towards sobriety and recovery. That's what I know the most about, and that's the one I have the most firsthand experience seeing have a positive effect in people's lives. You know, I have a cousin who relapsed recently on like a family trip. He relapsed on alcohol.
So the chances of his long term survival are a little bit better than somebody, you know, addicted to opiates, you know, but, you know, dangerous, deadly all the same. And like, we all decided we really wanted him there, you know, even though he was in his cups and you know, he got off the plane drunk and he stayed drunk through the whole weekend, you know, he was a part of the festivities and, and I feel like you're going to have better, a better shot at helping somebody, you know what I mean, by not ostracizing them completely. That's just my like, shoot from the hip sense of it is that like, you know, and it can be a chore to really like deal with somebody who's like deep in their addiction. And it's not always like tenable, but like to the extent that you can. I feel like one way to help keep others from falling all the way into the slipstream is to maintain that social connection, you know, as they struggle and don't let them like lose, don't let them lose sight, you know, of other people.
[00:27:27] Speaker C: The way that I usually have handled it in, in like a group in a community. I'm kind of dubbed the, the community social worker, I guess, which makes sense.
So I'm the one that would kind of be like, okay, here's a sober living, here's some resources, here's a meeting that we go to, like, here's my car. Like, here's, you know, kind of like laying out a plan for success for somebody who's a newcomer or someone who is, who has relapsed.
It doesn't really work all the time, but you know, I think that there's a lot of folks who like to be there for somebody who's relapsed or is going through continued addiction and really focus on the sobriety part, focus on the AA part, which I do. I, I love going to meetings with people. I love, I especially love seeing people responses like speak for the first time. That's such a, that's such a rush, isn't it?
[00:28:33] Speaker B: I've never seen Apollo speak. He's my, like my, the one sponsor I have that I have the most contact with. There's another one I have in the UK who I talk to like once a month. Yeah. And then what you talked about in regards to like harm reduction, like when, especially when we're talking about opiates, to extend a person's life as long as possible. And you know that can be Suboxone maintenance, right? I mean, you know, you've talked about, you know, this marijuana maintenance.
I, my recovery is abstinence based. But like, I don't know. Yeah. I just feel like a bedrock for me is, you know, preserve life, extend life for as long as there's life, there's hope and, you know, time for people to find something that of a sustainable, like a long term solution.
[00:29:26] Speaker C: Going back to my diagnosis of bipolar, I didn't know that, like, some of the drugs that I needed to be stable on were narcotics because I need to be on.
On benzodiazepines in order to feel okay.
And yeah, it's, it's kind of, it's, it's discouraging. Sometimes I don't like to share that in meetings, obviously, because first of all, I don't want to trigger anybody. And then second of all, I've heard a lot of like, well, you're not sober. If you're taking, if you're taking that, it's like, okay, do you want to see me go manic and end up in the hospital?
I don't, I don't think so.
[00:30:07] Speaker B: No. I think you have it exactly right. It's to not share it. Right. You know, just, you're conscious of the, you know, the other people that are trying to get well around you, and also it's not their fucking business. And, you know, you're going to do recovery in the way that is most functional and helpful for yourself. And that's what it's all about, really. You know, it's right, right.
You're looking after other people, but, you know, you're really there for number one. So.
[00:30:35] Speaker C: Yeah, I wish it wasn't that way, but it, but it is. And it is what it is.
I just trust my doctors.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: I can't take benzos. You know, like, that would not work for my program, but it's absolutely working for yours. Right. And what. Why should the way that you choose to do your recovery impinge it all on the way I choose to do mine? You know what I mean? We're all headed for the same destination here. You know what I mean? How we get there is kind of like our personal choice.
[00:31:08] Speaker C: I know we're running out of time a little bit, but do you have any stories about somebody special who overdosed?
[00:31:15] Speaker B: I have a friend named Orion and he went to Miracosta High School. He was in my graduating class. The kid that never wanted to go home after the partying was done, you know, like, he. And I don't, I don't think that he had, like, a particularly abusive or traumatic, you know, home life.
It was just that he just loved to, like, be around people and, like, he was Absolutely. Like a social drug addict, and he love Lou Reed. We were all listening to a lot of Lou Reed back then, and I didn't get into heroin or opiates as much in those days, but my friends all did. And, you know, we would go out and do karaoke, and, you know, Orion would.
We also really liked Prince. We were listening to a lot of Prince, and.
And I remember there was a great, like, karaoke night where my friend Phil and my friend Orion were, like, singing Prince songs and little red Corvette and. And then getting, like, so into, like, the moves, you know, and just really trying for that, like, slinky rock God kind of thing. And it was just so funny because, like, both. Neither guy looked like Prince, but it.
[00:32:25] Speaker C: Was too for Prince.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: What's up? Oh, God, that just occurred to me.
[00:32:32] Speaker C: Yeah. From the same illness.
[00:32:36] Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, what a. What a heartbreak. And I mean, like, just a brief side note, like, you know, Prince had a lot of shame, clearly, about his own addiction, and he kept it. He kept it secret, you know, I mean, of course, I'm sure there were people, like, in his absolute inner circle that were aware, because that's how that works. But, like, I feel like apparently when they. When he died and they were going through his personal effects, there was pamphlets, you know, from, like, recovery meetings and things like that. And, like, he was trying to get a handle on it and just wasn't able to. And I feel like if he had. If there was less stigma surrounding it, maybe, you know, he could have. There's a way he could have addressed that and, you know, found recovery and lived a little bit longer, you know what I mean? Because what a loss.
But, yeah, you know, Orion overdosed and, you know, the way that many do, which is that he had. He had some clean and sober time, and then he went back out. Did you circle back later and, like, make any contact with Adam's family or friends or, like, do any kind of, like, detective work about what happened to him? And, like, what was that? I mean, I'm sure, like, I don't know. Just tell me about, like, how you grieved or, like, how you were able to kind of finish your grieving later on.
[00:33:59] Speaker C: Oh, boy. Well, it was impossible to get a hold of Adam's family. No, none of them knew me.
And I tried on Facebook, and nobody's on Facebook, so that was impossible for me to get in touch with anybody. I know their names. Yeah, it was impossible for me to get in touch with anybody. So I'm kind of just on my own what I But my grieving process is I let myself cry and miss him. And sometimes if I'm in a bad situation or a confusing situation, I cry. I'm like, please help me. What would I do? If only he were here, he would know what to do. I'll just laugh at his humor and his music. I'll listen to his music all the time, and I honor him. And I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but I heard a quote. People can die twice. The first time when they pass away, and then the second time when their story stops being told. For some reason, I feel like I'm kind of the only person that keeps Adam's story going. And I'll continue to it's almost been 10 years years now. I still feel the same.
Want to feel the summer rain?
[00:35:20] Speaker B: Want to feel.
